Message: previous - next
Month: August 2009

Re: [kubuntu-kde3.5-users] What's missing in KDE 4: let's file some bugs

From: Stefan Endrullis <stefan@...>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:45:58 +0200
First of all, I did not know that Timothy is really fixing bugs in KDE3 and
implements even new features. Wow! That's great. Thank you Tim!
I think this is also a useful hint for the website, because the unmaintenance
of KDE3 is the major reason why people are switching from KDE3 to other DEs
and in same cases also to KDE4 (although I don't know any KDE4 users).
Thus, I would suggest a hint to the main page. Maybe you can even find other
programmers that are going to help you with the maintenance of KDE3 and there
programs. I would immediate join this project if I would be a good C programmer.

On the other hand, I also want to thank Dotan for his work. He's offering
this spare time to help improving KDE4 and making it usable. Although you
might think that KDE4 will never reach the usability stage of KDE3 (since KDE4
is using a much slower Qt I'm also pessimistic regarding that) you have to
admit that as long as only one person is working on KDE3 you cannot expect
major improvements for KDE3. I think it will get harder and harder to keep
KDE3 up-to-date. And therefore sometimes you have to switch to certain KDE4
applications if you want to use new features like the form filling feature in
okular. That's why we all can only benefit from Dotans support. For those who
feel annoyed by Dotans mails, please just ignore them, because some of use
appreciate his work.


kb9vqf@... schrieb:
>> Hope is nice, but with no developers working on KDE 3 it will soon
>> suffer the same bitrot that all abandoned software suffers (think
>> BeOS, Amiga).
> Hi Dotan,
> While I don't agree with the tone of some of the replies you received (I
> do appreciate what you are doing here) I need to respond to this
> particular point.
> I *am* developing KDE3.  If you look in the PPA that I maintain, you will
> see a whole slew of my patches that add new features, fix old bugs, and
> generally keep the code compilable and functional as the backend libraries
> change over time.
> Now, from all appearances, *if* I were to stop development then yes, KDE
> would bitrot and become unusable--purely because no one else has stepped
> forward to assist.
> I use KDE3.5 for a different purpose than some.  My desktop is configured
> to look, feel, and act like an enhanced version of Windows XP in "Classic"
> mode.  Like it or not, and I know many would argue with me, Microsoft had
> one of the best desktop interfaces available with that release.  If they
> hadn't abandoned it, I would still be an avid Microsoft user.
> Likewise, I know I will be argued with up and down on this, but KDE4
> seems, from a look-n-feel perspective only, to be a hybrid of Windows
> Vista and the latest Mac OS.  I hate those two operating systems.  In
> almost every design choice.  Period.
> I am not alone here.  Many engineers I have talked with do not like the
> new interface.  There are some of us who use a GUI simply because more
> information can be placed on it, and many tasks made faster, than the
> command line.  Gnome and KDE4 don't have very much *useful* and *relevant*
> information on the screen at any given time.  These people have also
> mentioned that the interface has a clunky feel, that they are having
> difficulty just getting basic tasks done in a streamlined, efficient
> fashion.  Simply, more clicks required in the UI per task == more time
> wasted.
> The clunkiness has a direct impact on this.  The DE should recede into the
> background, not constantly push its way into the foreground.  When it
> shoves its way into the users programs, in the form of excessively large
> menu bars, taskbars, and buttons, valuable screen space is stolen from the
> user's application, forcing more scrolling, window management operations,
> and application menu use inside the user's program.
> This is a common flaw with the new direction all desktops seem to be
> heading in.  They are all pretty (well, actually, the Mac OS is pretty,
> while Vista and KDE4 are really ugly), and seem to work well--until you
> try to use them in your job, when you have 4 clients and 2 managers
> demanding you get X, Y, and Z done *NOW*.  Then you find that in order to
> multitask in any sensible form you will need to learn to click constantly,
> everywhere, and end up purchasing a really big replacement monitor.  Yet,
> somehow, your old monitor was perfectly adequate under Windows XP and
> KDE3.5.  Your programs haven't changed.  So why again is your DE forcing
> you to buy new hardware and slowing you down?
> Hmmm.
> No thanks.
> I have even caused some older folks, who have used Windows since it came
> out, to switch to Linux.  How?  By showing them a truly better desktop
> interface: Windows XP classic + some sorely needed features--in other
> words, KDE3.5.  They all hated where Windows was going, and Mac was too
> limiting.
> So, rant aside, try adding a "super-tiny-taskbar, icons, buttons, and
> menus" option.  Also make an "angular buttons option" so that they can be
> compacted on the screen the way they always were.  (Actually IIRC that
> last one finally does exist in KDE3).
> Also, make it so that the shiny stuff can be turned off.  Menu drop
> shadows are OK, but shiny rounded menus are distracting.
> Bring back the old KDE control center.
> Bring back task tray icons as plasmoid replacements.  I DON'T LIKE having
> to minimize my windows (an extra click) to get at something critical like
> the network manager plasmoid and then have to un-minimize them all again
> when I am done (another extra click).  To say nothing of having to check
> connectivity in another program and then go back to the plasmoid....click
> click click click click....grrrr...Windows was so much better...  This is
> a massive waste of the user's time and is, bluntly, a really, really
> stupid design decision.  You NEVER want to make the users think what I
> just wrote.
> I like putting icons on my desktop.  Only icons.  Can we turn off that
> stupid cashew yet?
> The UI fonts are way too large.
> Why can't I *easily* and *intuitively* reconfigure something as basic as
> my desktop???
> You get the point.  Many of these items are design decisions that the
> developers made to "set KDE4 apart".  I don't think they will be fixed
> anytime soon.  Feel free to surprise me though! :-)
> Timothy Pearson
> KDE3.5 Maintainer
> Embedded Systems Engineer
> Raptor Engineering